26 entrepreneurs and they are net energy plus. Then there are 80% who are followers. They just follow around whoever is in charge. They’re busy; they’re having kids; and they’re doing whatever. Some of us cycle between being fol- lowers and net energy plus. Then you have a group I refer to as ‘net ener- gy minus,’ and my nickname for them is “the slugs.” The slugs always drain. Some of the slugs are Scorpions, which means that they en- joy draining. They enjoy busting things. They enjoy breaking things and making them not work. The slugs will always be with us. I grew up in a neighborhood in West Phila- delphia that was a multiracial, multicultural, multi-religious area, but all the different people – the net energy plus people – could figure each other out. They would organize to do slug management very quietly because they could cut off the slugs’ money. Then when govern- ment money and the drugs came in, the net energy plus people lost the ability to cut off the slugs’ money. The rich and powerful slugs figured out how to use the local slugs. So part of our problem is slug management. Basically what we’ve done is allowed networks of people to get the bit in their teeth, and they are running a system where they’re centralizing political and economic power, and it’s shrinking the total pie. But they don’t care because they’re slugs. Cynthia McKinney: They don’t care at all. It’s interesting that we are having this discussion because I introduced a new word to my polit- ical science students, and that word is ‘kakis- tocracy.’ That is leadership governance by the least qualified, most corrupt, most vile kinds of personalities. They are the ones who are able to claw their way to the top. This phenomenon of ‘kakistocracy’ then led me to consider the entire scenario in the republic, and say “I am a sovereign individual, and I take my sovereignty and I give it to someone else, and then I beg them, ‘Please do this for me. Please do that for me.’” Maybe built into that particular power configu- ration is this inability to control the slugs. C. Austin Fitts: Let’s talk about a very im- portant thing. You said that we have to name names. So let’s talk about who the slugs are. There are different constructs. You have this construct of the Pilgrims and the Ziocons, which I think is very useful and very interesting. You’re basically targeting two power groups. The Ziocons are a mixture of Zionists and Neocons, and the Pilgrims are like the old line WASPs. We’ve seen power bounce around and back and forth between these two groups. There is no doubt about it. Part of what we’re watching is an integrated merger of the Pilgrims and the Ziocons (I call them the Neocons). We’re look- ing at this merger, and at the root of it is, fun- damentally, an organized crime model. I would say that the reason I use the term ‘Scorpion’ is because, in my opinion, they are demonic. I don’t know if you’ve ever seen the movie Eyes Wide Shut, but these are people who do pervert- ed things. So we’re talking about a very pervert- ed subject here. Maybe you could say a few words about the Ziocons and the Pilgrims and what you saw in Congress for 12 years. Cynthia McKinney: I came up with the Pilgrims and the Ziocons because I was trying to understand what I was witnessing and what I was experiencing when I was in Congress. There was a level of contention amongst those who were actually going to control the reigns of the state and all of the powers of the governing apparatus of the United States of America. What I believe is that there was a point at which the Pilgrims and the Ziocons shared a mission, according to Dr. Peter Turchin and his idea of cliodynamics where he tries to mathe- matize history. He says that at one point you have the united deep state. Then the apparatus of the state is incapable of satisfying in periods of boom all of the power demands of every in- dividual who is in the deep state. That is when you see factionalization taking place. I believe that this is where we are now. C. Austin Fitts: When I say that the debt growth model is over, I’m saying that the spigot of infinite free money is over, and now it’s the Midianite thing. Fighting is beginning because